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Caroline Wanga thinks corporate diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) efforts need a reframe, regardless of the backlash they face in culture and politics.

As President & CEO of Essence Ventures, Co-Founder of WangaWoman, and former Chief Culture, Diversity and Inclusion Officer at Target, Wanga champions and inspires authenticity as the key to achieving the “goals” of DEI initiatives in the corporate sector and beyond.

By embracing humanity over numbers, companies can create cultures that celebrate the uniqueness of individuals and foster a sense of belonging—while also making money.

Based on Wanga’s keynote discussion with Elisa Leary, Senior Vice President, People & Culture, Catalyst, at the 2024 Catalyst Awards, here are five questions to ask yourself about the DEI policies and programs in your workplace:

1. Do your workplace policies give individuals permission to express themselves and ask for what they need?
   “For the amount of time I invested in being in all the right places for DEI, none of my numbers moved because I was there. My numbers moved when people saw me come to work with dreadlocks and finally started wearing their vacation braids to work.”White norms are often centered in workplace culture and dress code policies, favoring people with straighter and finer hair while devaluing people with kinkier and coarser hair.As a Black woman, Wanga expressed the freedom she felt when permitted to wear her natural hair at work and how wearing what she wanted to “freed up my mental capacity by 40% to do my job.”
2. Do your mentorship programs pair employees based on their appearance or deeper qualities they need to succeed?
   
   “Corporate America mentorship should be aligned to the needs of the person and the best person who can give them that. What they happen to look like should not be a factor in whether they’re a good mentor.”Wanga discussed the transformative effect mentorship had on her career journey to the C-suite, particularly her relationship with Brian Cornell, Chairman & CEO of Target Corporation.Their partnership worked well because Cornell had experience with mental health, which Wanga needed when she was experiencing depression symptoms at work.Oftentimes, Wanga found, it was suggested she should pair with mentors who looked like her. “Understand who I am and what I need to succeed and pair me with the best person in the company to do that. And the first qualification is not skin color,” she said.
3. Does your workplace offer space for employees to truly listen to each other?
   
   “We were teaching everybody how to come out and say stuff that makes people uncomfortable… What we forgot to do is teach people how to listen to it.”During her career at Target, Wanga created listening sessions based on important cultural and political events happening in broader society and how they impacted employees. This strategy creates space for empathy, an important driver for engagement and inclusion.She compared the success of these sessions, whose emphasis was on listening over responding, to the “courageous conversations” DEI trend, which focused on speaking over listening.”

   It wasn’t about who was right and who was wrong. It was about creating a setting that allows people’s humanity to exist. And as long as there was no violation of the law policy, dignity, and respect, you let it happen.”

4. Do your DEI programs foster personal accountability and action?
   
   “The next time you use the word ‘DEI,’ instead of saying I need DEI to do this, or I’m worried that DEI is doing this, take out the word ‘DEI’ and put your name and see how you feel. Because if you’re not doing it, I don’t care about DEI.”The risks of performative DEI policies are high, including negative impacts on employee retention and performance.During her talk, Wanga critiqued corporate cultures that prioritize words over action. “One of the things in corporate America we have to own is how much we like to make things look different, so we have to make as little change as possible,” she said.
   By aligning DEI actions to your company’s values, leaders can create genuine systemic change through transparent communication and accountability.
5. Are your DEI initiatives primarily for meeting business objectives or creating a more humane workplace?
   
   “DEI is not about ‘How many of this do you have?’ DEI is not about meeting goals… DEI is about teaching people how to get in touch with what they are good at.”Throughout her keynote, Wanga’s overarching call to action for DEI practitioners and leaders was to get clear on the true purpose of DEI—its human impact.
   
   During a time of anti-DEI cultural and legal shifts, as well as economic uncertainty, the case-making for DEI is more crucial now than ever. Research shows that justifying DEI by emphasizing how it creates a fairer workplace is more preferred by employees.”Before you go criticizing DEI and being worried about the fact that money’s going away, be more worried that people are taking their lives because they can’t come to work as they are—which matters more.”

Join us 11 March 2025, for more exciting insights from the premier gender equity and DEI conference, the Catalyst Awards. Fill out the form and select the box to receive your reminder to register.

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The post Is DEI authentic? Caroline Wanga says we need a reframe. appeared first on Catalyst.

At the 2024 Catalyst Awards Conference, two DEI leaders shared their insights in a panel discussion with Kelly Montes, Executive Director, US, Catalyst. Here is what we learned from Vernā Myers, founder and president of The Vernā Myers Company, and Shaun Smith, Group SVP and Chief People and Culture Officer of New York-Presbyterian.

Reasons for the Pushback Against DEI

The root cause of the backlash, said Myers, is that “we’re winning. I mean, that’s the bottom line. You don’t have backlash against something that is impotent or not making a change. So I want to really encourage people [because] we are winning.”

Nevertheless, we need to take the assault against DEI efforts seriously, Myers continued, asserting that opposition to DEI is connected with opposition to women’s rights, as evidenced by diminishing access to abortion, Indigenous rights, and the continuation of anti-Black racism. The pushback to DEI is “trying to take the truth-telling out of our history,” she said. “This is part of a coordinated plan to move us back.”

Speaking specifically to what Smith has experienced at New York-Presbyterian, Smith says he has heard concerns among some employees that certain DEI policies make them feel somewhat left behind. They wonder, he said, “What does [DEI] mean for me as an individual? Where do I fit in?” He says it’s important to address those concerns promptly and head-on.

It’s not only White men asking these questions in workplaces across the country. This zero-sum thinking focuses on the needs of the individual and positions employees to assume, mistakenly, that DEI will result in the loss of personal opportunities. The challenge—and opportunity—for organizations is to demonstrate the value of diversity for everyone and to show that no one loses out.

“I would ask,” Smith continued, “[how can we show employees that diversity initiatives] are not a zero-sum game [and that we are] supporting people to win so that we can all win?” The goal for employers is “fostering and helping people toward self-actualization and living their best lives.” And to do this, Smith said, you need diversity. “You really need a lot of different brains to do that, right?”

How to Challenge the Assault Against DEI Efforts

Employees overwhelmingly (93%) want their companies to talk about DEI, Montes shared, citing Catalyst research. But how should we talk about the goals of DEI—should we emphasize the fairness case (the right thing to do) or the business case (how DEI supports the financial bottom line)? Knowing the best way to frame your commitment to employees is critical because your positioning signals your priorities. Nearly half of employees surveyed in 11 countries told Catalyst they want their organization to talk about its diversity initiatives using both a fairness case and a business case. Of those who prefer one over the other, more than twice as many prefer the fairness case.

Montes asked if it would be helpful to change our language. Myers doesn’t think so. If we change names and terms, we will discover that it’s not the language but the ideas that cause the opposition. “’Affirmative action’ was a great term, but a misinformation campaign like the one we are experiencing now has soured and stigmatized it. We need to be mindful that changing the language might inadvertently lead DEI practitioners to change the work they are doing.” She added, “You know, what you call it really doesn’t matter as long as you are doing the work of diversity, equity, and inclusion.”

Smith summed up what works best: supporting all employees “to get where they want to, which is to thrive and become who they are. When an organization gives back [to employees], people give back to you.” And the way to achieve this goal, all agreed, is through equity and inclusion.

The post Why is There Backlash Against DEI? — And How to Fix It appeared first on Catalyst.

Heather Foust-Cummings, Chief Research & Development Officer talks to lauded labor economist and 2023 winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics, Dr. Claudia Goldin about her research and the significant impact childcare challenges have on women in the workplace. This interview was shared as part of the 2024 Catalyst Awards.

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Transcript

00:00:04.135
Every year businesses lose more than $12.7 billion due to childcare challenges. The lack of stability in childcare has an outsized impact on women. Catalyst found that in the United States,
roughly four in 10 women, or 44% say they will likely need to change jobs to balance childcare with work demands compared to 37% of men.

We sat down with Dr. Claudia Goldin, who recently won the Swedish Central Bank Prize in economic sciences in memory of Alfred Nobel for her extensive research on women in the labor market. She is just the third woman to win the prize and the first to do so solo.

00:00:54.795
Claudia, your work aligns directly with the Catalyst mission. Could you share how your research has followed the trajectory of women in the workplace?

00:01:04.545
Uh, certainly in the 1970s. And what’s interesting is it aligns perfectly with when Catalyst began and the Catalyst mission. We had revolutionary change, and I call that the quiet revolution. And some of that was set in motion by the fact that women began to be able to do a much better job controlling their own fertility. And the marriage age rose by quite a bit, and we pivoted from addressing and helping individual women to really focusing on corporations and making workplaces more inclusive, recognizing organizations and companies that had successfully advanced women.

00:01:47.775
Given the developments that we’re seeing in the labor force today, what is the work that we still need to do in order to achieve greater equity?

00:01:57.825
So there’s work in terms of care. So what we realized, the other thing that we realized during the pandemic was that school isn’t just teaching children. It’s actually keeping children safe and allowing individuals, mainly their parents to be productive citizens and productive workers. And we realized the tremendous importance of care. Couples are always faced with the problem that if they have care responsibilities, and in general, couples with children have great care responsibilities, both members of the couple cannot take that greedy job. They can both take a flexible job. Mm-Hmm.

But the, to the extent that the greedy job is really greedy, it means that you’re leaving a fair amount of money on the table. Well, it turns out that by and large, uh, when couples give up couple equity and one takes the greedy job and one takes the flexible job, they generally also throw gender equality under the bus with it. Because in general, it’s the woman who takes the flexible job.

She, by the way, also has the joys of seeing her kids do things first and do many things that her husband, the father of the child, might not have the ability to, to see and partake in.

And so even in jobs in which wages are fixed equal for men and women, men make a lot more because they are able to take, even for lower income jobs, the greedier job, it means that couples different sex or same sex couples are no longer going to have to give up as much couple equity.
And that’s important for everybody.

00:04:06.365
I think it’s so telling, when you talk about the contributions that women make, you talk about the value of what women are providing in the home. It, it’s something that is, uh, a personal passion of mine, uh, in terms of really addressing the issues of of marginalized groups, particularly racially and ethnically marginalized groups. And so, um, I think as you tell your story
of the history of, of the women’s movement and, um, women in the United States, I look forward to
that aspect of the story.

00:04:41.315
Certainly.

The post Video: Dr. Claudia Goldin Talks Childcare and Greedy Jobs appeared first on Catalyst.

At the 2024 Catalyst Awards conference, a Baby Boomer, a Gen Xer, a Millennial, and a Gen Zer discussed how their generations can leverage their differences to work better together. Giovanni Lucas, SVP, Chief Diversity and Talent Acquisition Officer, Nationwide, moderated “Beyond the Buzzword: Navigating DEI Through the Generations.” The panelists were Mike Boyd, SVP, Marketing Content & Delivery, Nationwide, a Baby Boomer; Lisa Kirk, VP, Talent Acquisition, Nationwide, a Gen Xer; Ingrid Harb, CEO, NOTA Inclusion, a Millennial; and Na’Kia Channey, Partnerships and Impact Manager, Google, a Gen Zer.

Here are their key insights:

1. Focus on differences, not divisiveness.“It’s nothing new, that we’ve complained about the newer generations,” said Harb. “But what is new is that we have social media.” She shared some research she did about generational stereotypes. Baby Boomers are described online as “selfish” and “workaholics.” Gen X was called “the Karen Generation.” Millennials were described as “lazy” and “entitled.” And Gen Z were described as “lazy” and “unaware.”“These are preconceived notions,” Harb continued. “These are complaints. And so, […] this is a hype and we need to put it to the side. So, when you’re working with someone, you need to really judge them based on your own life experiences.”
2. Center the individual and their superpowers. Channey said, “We have to make sure that we are thinking about who are we as unique individuals with all of our other intersecting identities and how those each inform our unique lived experiences. And even though I do think we can all agree that ageism and generations are not a monolith, I think each generation still has these unique superpowers that we bring to the world and of course, then to the workplace. And the organizations that take the time to actually understand, strengthen, and grow those unique superpowers are the ones that truly stand the test of time and then see the best growth and strength.”
3. You’re never too old to reflect, learn, and grow.
   Boyd spoke about his experience joining Nationwide. “It was 30-some-odd years into my career. It was the first time that I had the opportunity to work for a person of color. And on my first interview, with the hiring manager, it quickly moved from, ‘This is interesting’, to ‘How do I work for that man?’ I was so impressed by his leadership, his presence. And […]you’re thinking, ‘Oh, I’ve seen it all. I’ve done it all.’ And it was, ‘Child, you don’t know anything about the world out there.’” 

   “On self-reflection,” he continued, “and this can be on diversity, it can be generational, is then, what do you do when you experience that moment, right? For me, it was a lot of self-reflection. The first thing I said [to myself] was, ‘You have a lot of catching up to do. You have to make up for lost time.’ And so I really tried to double down on, ‘Who am I mentoring? Who am I working with? What is my presence? What is my leadership voice? What am I doing in this organization?’ And I would not have had that outlook, unless I had this opportunity. […] Start on day one and don’t look back.”

4. It’s never too soon to refresh your hiring practices. Kirk said, “Think about the decision that a hiring leader makes every time they hire. It is hugely impactful to your organization’s results. And it is hugely impactful to the experience of that candidate across the table. And so, one of the things that we’ve done at Nationwide is create an inclusive hiring toolkit. Really helping leaders see: why is this important? Why does it matter? Not assuming that every leader knows why it matters, kind of outlining that. Secondly, walking them through specific practices that we want them to follow, behaviors and mindsets that we want them to embody when they are interviewing. To have an inclusive hiring panel that is welcoming, that is embracing that that candidate can see themselves and what it would look like to be successful in your organization. It matters.”
5. Being a good role model starts with being good to yourself. Harb didn’t mince words, calling out the leaders who, intentionally or not, set the precedent for professionalism at their workplaces. One generation’s hard work can be another generation’s burnout. “One of the problems with cross-generational workplaces is that we all think our point of view is right,” she said. “And we’re seeing that newer generations are struggling with mental health. But I need every single leader in this room to learn how to deal with their emotions. I need every single leader in this room to be aware of their work habits that can lead their teams and themselves to burnout. Self-awareness is the new intelligence, and we, we need to go within because we’re creating unsustainable workplaces that are burning everyone out and yourself. So, I really need for our leaders of today to deal with their emotions.”
6. Sometimes leadership means letting others pass you by. Boyd knows the value of putting the right people in the right place and letting them soar. “I want to build the very best team. I want to have very successful results. Full stop. I want the very best talent on the team. And that comes from a very diverse team. And when I work with people, I will express it to myself, going, ‘You’re five years ahead of where I was at your age.’ ‘You’re 10 years ahead of where I was at your age.’ So, why would I want to slow that down?”

   “I’m [Gen] X and a lot of us had to go through some of the twists and turns of corporate culture, right? We had to go through… some of us might have been hazed a little bit,” Lucas contributed. “My job is to be an accelerator. I don’t want those who are coming behind me to have to go through the same thing I went through. My job is to make sure that I’m mitigating speed bumps along the way so the journey can be faster. That should be all of our job, right? To think about pulling folks up in a very meaningful way that allows them to experience opportunities in a way they never would have if it had not been for you investing in them.”
7. Connecting across differences is where the magic happens. Channey reminded attendees that collaboration can be a rewarding experience. “I think cross-generational connections also can be fun. I think it’s so important that we bring the fun back into these type of conversations and into the workplace. And at the end of the day, I try to live a life of joy. And I find joy when I get connected to people and help me get to where I want to go, and [I help them get to where they want to go]. We also can just bond together on our shared humanity together.”

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The post 7 Lessons From 4 Generations on Working Together (Blog Post) appeared first on Catalyst.

Men play an essential role in improving workplaces and opportunities for people of all genders, as Chevron CEO Mike Wirth knows firsthand. A longtime supporter of Catalyst’s MARC (Men Advocating Real Change) initiative, which engages men in creating positive culture change and gender equity at all levels of workplaces and organizations, Wirth has been a key leader in advancing gender partnership. At the 2024 Catalyst Awards, Wirth sat down with Catalyst’s outgoing President and CEO Lorraine Hariton to chat about gender partnership and MARC by Catalyst, which Chevron committed significant funding to under Wirth’s leadership.

As a child, adolescent, and teen, Wirth was lucky to have exposure to powerful women , and as time went on, he realized he could proactively create the circumstances in which inspiring women would always be in his personal orbit. “I always wanted to be in the on the project teams with some of the women students because they were the best students that would give you the best grade,” he said. “When I started at Chevron, my first three supervisors were women and they were still, to this day, three of the very best bosses that I’ve ever had, and relatively early on.”

Those early experiences showed him the value of women’s perspectives, ideas, and experiences that some of his colleagues weren’t getting. “As my career progressed, I realized I had a series of unusual experiences…. I was at a meeting with much of our senior women executives, and I was the only man in the room. And after we went around for introductions and it was my opportunity to speak, my palms were sweaty, I had butterflies, and I realized what everybody in that room had felt many times being the only one.”

That revelation was a pivotal learning moment for Wirth, and it set him on the course that would eventually change the minds and lives of a lot of people at Chevron. Wirth knew that the othering experience women frequently have at work was antithetical to his values and that for things to change, the other men at Chevron would have to learn about what he had learned.

Enter MARC. “We created MARC’s discussion groups, and initially it was to enroll men,” Wirth said. “This is our company. We need to understand more and we need to engage more. And so, this began as single gender discussion groups to begin to explore some of these concepts. And very quickly and very naturally, they evolved to say, ‘We need women here to tell us, what do they really experience, what do they really feel?’”

Today, MARC programming at Chevron is flourishing, with over 5,000 employees participating across all six continents of operations. And women make up over 30% over senior executives and half of the board.

So, what’s next? Last year, Catalyst unveiled the Frontline Employees Initiative, the importance of which was not lost on Wirth. “Without a front line,” he said, “we don’t have a bottom line.” To that end, Chevron is supporting Catalyst’s work to bring MARC to the front line. Wirth said, “Most of the things I described earlier have gone on with office-based workers.” In frontline work, “You don’t have the same flexibility or the same capability, but we’ve got to have the same conversations.”

And Chevron has already hit the ground running. “We’ve got a pilot now in North America with onshore facilities, offshore facilities, refineries, chemical plants…. We’re trying to bring some of these tools into that work environment, see how they work, get feedback from our people, and find a way to reach that part of our workforce where we still do have an opportunity to increase both representation and I also think inclusion,” Wirth said.

The work on gender partnership and inclusion at work is ongoing for Wirth and for Chevron. The journey continues. “Our industry faces one of the biggest challenges mankind has ever faced, right? How do we go through an energy transition to get to a lower carbon economy, to deal with the challenges of climate change? I need people from every country, every background, every racial and ethnic group, every way of thinking. And I need them to be able to bring their whole selves to work so we can solve these big challenges. I can’t afford to not have a workforce that represents all of the people and all of the ideas, all of the creativity, all the passion. It’s really so core to our purpose.”

MARC by Catalyst has grown into a robust suite of programs, including MARC Executive Dialogue for C-suite leaders and a thriving community of alums of MARC programs.

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The post Gender Partnership Can Change Workplaces, Industries, and the World. Just Ask Mike Wirth of Chevron. (Video) appeared first on Catalyst.

Dow Chemical’s Shruti Bahadur, Global Employee Experience and ERG Leader, and Tiffany D. Torain, Inclusion, Diversity, and Equity Relationship Manager for the Great Lakes Bay Region, offered up these helpful guidelines for maximizing ERG potential at the 2024 Catalyst Awards. Above all else, it’s key to have an intentional focus and take deliberate action to drive meaningful progress and results. Read on to learn how to put these principles into action.

1. Offer a solid value proposition: Don’t forget that ERGs are first and foremost a resource for employees. ERGs can offer them a voice within the organization, cultivate positive workplace experiences, and provide a platform for business growth. An ERG must be welcoming, foster cross-collaboration, and align with organizational core values.
2. Create a robust governance structure: For ERGs to meet their potential, you need to maintain open pathways of communication from both company leadership and ERG members, and the right governance structure can achieve this. For example, an office of inclusion might be at the center, under the supervision of executive sponsors from firm leadership who can share their annual business targets and objectives. ERG sponsors can work alongside this “central office,” sharing feedback from ERG members as well as communicating firmwide goals to the ERGs. This creates a robust feedback loop, collaboration at all levels, and a platform for enterprise engagement.
3. Design mechanisms for measurement and accountability: To ensure that ERGs are effective, it’s important to have tools to measure their success. For example, many ERGs create dashboards that display the number of members, a lineup of future events or projects, past event attendance, and any other relevant data. Once you have established the right metrics to track your ERGs’ progress, don’t forget to schedule regular check-ins with ERG sponsors to review results and adjust your strategy accordingly.
4. Align ERGs with strategic priorities: Don’t forget to activate your ERGs to help with organizational priorities, for example recruiting or increasing supplier diversity. Roll out an agenda of priorities each year, but make sure that your ERGs have enough flexibility to develop programming that works for their audience. For example, an ERG that focuses on people with disabilities might help an organization design packaging that is easier to open.
5. Focus on engagement: It’s critical for employees to feel genuinely engaged with their ERGs and inspired to participate in a meaningful way. Collaboration with other ERGs can help to increase allyship and amplify impact, so don’t forget to provide opportunities for members of different ERGs to connect, learn from one another, and volunteer. For example, all-ERG conferences allow representatives from each ERG to come together to learn from one another and get inspired.
6. Promote advocacy and action: ERGs are a great way to transform your organization’s vocal support for inclusion into actions that directly benefit employees. They have the potential to communicate to company leadership which benefits and policies would make the biggest difference for employees. For example, a company might choose to adjust its parental leave policies to include those who are not birth parents, or offer more targeted flex-work options.

Employee Resource Groups have so much to offer an organization: they increase employee satisfaction, they are a fantastic conduit for employee feedback to leadership, and they can provide invaluable assistance with organizational initiatives. By maximizing the potential of your ERGs for inclusion, you can bring your diversity, equity, and inclusion initiative—and your organization—to a whole new level.

The post How to Maximize the Potential of Your ERGs appeared first on Catalyst.

Opportunities for women have expanded since Felice N. Schwartz founded Catalyst over 60 years ago. In 1962, “Help Wanted” advertisements were segregated by gender and race, and the law permitted companies in the United States to pay women less than men. And yet, women continue to face myriad systemic challenges with gender parity, from the gender pay gap to the glass cliff.

Trailblazing changemaker Hillary Rodham Clinton—a champion of democracy and human rights for women and everyone—joined the 2024 Catalyst Awards Conference. In a fireside chat with former Catalyst president and CEO Lorraine Hariton, Clinton shared her candid observations on what we have accomplished, and where we go from here.

Clinton reminded us that until recently, US girls and women were blatantly and unapologetically treated as second-class citizens, “with a very clearly designated lane girls and women were supposed to follow.” She presented herself as a living example. When she was 14, inspired by President Kennedy, Secretary Clinton wrote a letter to NASA, saying she wanted to become an astronaut and asking what she would need to do to accomplish her dream. The letter she received in response said that NASA was not interested in women.

As a young married woman in the 1970s, Clinton was not legally able to obtain a credit card in her own name. “This may seem like ancient history,” she said, “but Lorraine and I lived through it.” She reminded us that Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg was instrumental in knocking down many legal obstacles, as was Title IX, the 1972 landmark federal civil rights law that provided equal opportunity to girls and women in athletics and academics.

In the mid-1980s, Sam Walton, the legendary founder of Walmart, called Clinton and asked her to serve on the Walmart board. Was it because of her qualifications? Yes and no. He told her that his wife and daughter said he needed a woman on the board. “’Okay, would you be that woman?’” he asked. Clinton continued, “And, of course, I was the one woman on the board. It was an extraordinary opportunity for me to be involved in when we were beginning to recognize the role of diversity, equity, and inclusion in the corporate boardroom.”

Clinton punctuated the lack of gender parity she and millions of others experienced with anecdotes about what they wore in the workplace. As the first woman partner at the Rose Law Firm in Arkansas, Clinton shared, she dressed in the same outfit that many professional women did in the 1970s and 80s—a navy blue skirt suit with a white blouse and a ribbon tied around the neck. Standing out by wearing clothes with a personality was simply too risky. “It was not a great look,” Clinton said with a dry laugh.

Many Awards Conference attendees were familiar with the “uniform” corporate women previously wore to work, and laughed ruefully along with Clinton as she spoke, but then Clinton added an anecdote that elicited gasps. An expert witness with short hair was told to go out and buy a wig with long hair before entering the courtroom in order to be taken seriously—which she did.

A woman’s appearance was no trivial matter; women were constantly devalued if they deviated from feminine norms. “We faced what I call the ‘talking dog syndrome,’” Clinton explained. “There was bewilderment that a woman could be in a courtroom trying a lawsuit.” She reminisced about an Arkansas trial at which a number of local hunters who were in town picking up supplies made a trip to the courtroom, filling the front row as if they were visiting a zoo. “I asked the bailiff who they were, and he said, ‘They heard there was a lady lawyer in town, and they couldn’t believe it and wanted to see it for themselves.’”

Today, we have four women on the US Supreme Court. Yet, Hariton noted, we are experiencing a backlash—for every step forward, there have been two steps back. “What should we be doing at this moment?” Hariton asked, in the face of the Supreme Court decisions rolling back women’s constitutional right to an abortion and affirmative action in higher education admissions, along with a general climate in which diversity, equity, and inclusion are demonized.

Clinton offered these practical actions everyone should do to achieve gender parity:

Speak up for other women in the workplace. When a man repeats what a woman already said in a meeting as if he were the originator of the idea, call him in. “I like to say, ‘John, I’m so glad you amplified Mary’s point of view.’ Be a good colleague on behalf of other women—and it’s not just for women to support other women. Men also should support women.”

Vote in local and state elections. “There’s a global pushback against women’s rights,” Clinton said. Just as authoritarian and repressive governments around the world are consolidating power at the expense of equity, so too are women’s health and IVF at risk in the US. “Do not be deluded. This is about controlling women’s lives and opportunities to choose their own path,” she said.

Be optimistic. Clinton quoted Madeline Albright, the Secretary of State who had fled the Nazis and communist Czechoslovakia, and never took democracy for granted. When asked if she was an optimist or pessimist, Albright responded, “I’m an optimist who worries a lot.”

Clinton encouraged us all to fight for our freedoms, but always reserve a dose of optimism for better days ahead.

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The post Here’s What Hillary Rodham Clinton Told the Catalyst Community About Gender Parity appeared first on Catalyst.

With pay transparency laws changing across the US and UK, pay equity is now becoming a standard practice among leading organizations. More importantly, it is a key competitive differentiator for those looking to attract and retain key talent.

What causes this gender pay gap among women of color, and how can HR leaders and DEI practitioners work together to close it?

At the 2024 Catalyst Awards, Erin Souza-Rezendes, VP, Global Communications at Catalyst sat down with Google leaders Melonie Parker, Chief Diversity Officer and Rachel Spivey, Director of Retention & Progression (Stay & Thrive) Team to talk about how Google is creating pathways to pay equity for women of color.

Here are five lessons we learned:

1. Make compensation analysis business-critical. Equity starts at the top, and ensuring that comp analysis is fundamental to your strategic priorities gives pay transparency the gravitas it deserves.
2. Look at fairness holistically. Companies must invest in pay transparency to better understand the pay equity gap and do it continuously. Pay transparency is also just one component. Companies must also consider the role a person plays, their location, benefits, and other factors that could impact their pay.
3. Identify moments where inequity may be reinforced—and do something about them. Melonie’s team looks at each step of the employee’s journey to identify moments or places that might create or compound inequity. For example, at each level, Google does a salary reset so that when team members enter the organization at different levels, that inequity doesn’t compound once they are promoted. Similarly, her team schedules its compensation analysis so it aligns with annual merit and promotion increases.
4. Help team members understand the system. Many people take it for granted that employees understand performance evaluation systems and how salary bands and role expectations are structured. HR leaders and managers need to communicate how these systems work so employees can invest in the progression path that best suits their needs and lifestyle. Google takes this a step further with their Stay & Thrive program, which provides one-on-one guidance to employees, creating a process where an employee can feel heard and supported.
5. Don’t just guide, advocate. Having a mentor to help guide you through critical career moments is important, but people also need advocates who have access to the right rooms and conversations. At Google, the Stay & Thrive team works across the organization to advocate for the employees in the program.

Endnote:

1. Kochhar, R. (2023, March 1). The enduring grip of the gender pay gap. Pew Research Center.

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The post Unlock Equity for Women of Color: 5 Strategies from Google appeared first on Catalyst.

MARC (Men Advocating Real Change) is a Catalyst initiative that inspires men to leverage their unique opportunity and responsibility to be advocates for equity. Watch this special experience with panel of MARC Alums and discover:

• Insights into their individual journeys of personal growth and transformation in advocating for gender equity.
• Practical and effective strategies for fostering gender partnership within their respective spheres of influence.

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Transcript

00:00:04,604
I have an incredible panel with me, two amazing partners of Catalyst from Procter & Gamble and Chevron. So I’m going to do a quick introduction and then I’ll get started. So immediately
to my right is Karl Preissner, HR Director of Global Equality & Inclusion at P&G.

And then next to Karl is Gavin Kimmel, Category Manager and Executive Director of the Board for MARC at Chevron.
So please join me in welcoming them. (Applause.)

00:00:34,267
So it’s terrific to have you both here today. And certainly given all the work that Chevron and P&G have done with MARC over time, we really wanted to take this opportunity to talk about the impact that it’s made in your workplace and to really think about MARC alumni and kind of what the ripple effect is.

So going on our theme around the Catalyst Effect, right, where we’ve been talking about all day today, we really want to think about the ripple effect that has happened inside the organizations and help you all really think about some of those lessons and stories for your organizations as well that you can take back.

So let’s kick off by way of introduction. Please share your background with us and how you became personally involved in gender equity at your organization.

Karl.

00:01:18,745
Sure.

So Karl Preissner, as you said, you know, I was thinking about this question. You told us you’d ask for it and I think maybe in some ways how I got here, my experience with MARC, I was an Eagle Scout growing up, so there’s something about the Scout motto of, you know, you know, always help others.

But also I remember growing up, my mom grew up in a family where women were not expected to go to college. You know, her father, my grandfather, sent and paid for, you know, my uncle,
but not my mom. And so she ended up paying her own way through city school and went on to get a master’s in education. So as part of my background, a little bit.

But I think really where how I came to MARC and I think my experiences when I was like, I really want to get involved in this, were more in my career in R&D. So I’d spent first 18 years with P&G at R&D, last seven, now leading a lot of our quality inclusion work. It was really in R&D, where I started to see, you know, we’d face these sticky challenges that really rarely had clear answers to them. And the collaboration was really what allowed us to innovate and was also a place where I saw the impact that bias can have.

You know, I, I remember the first time I ran a consumer test for laundry products and I saw how I could take one product that had worse stain removal, you know,  this one got ketchup out worse
than the other one, but I made the one that was worse a winner just by putting in a nice perfume. So consumers are telling me this one cleans better, even though it really doesn’t because of something completely unrelated, the perfume. It just is a signal.

I think, like when those light bulbs started going off, I started to think maybe these patterns play out in how we work with each other as well.

I think, like when those light bulbs started going off, I started to think maybe these patterns play out in how we work with each other as well.

00:03:07,520
And I think they do. So for me, this is really an extension that just the best basis for us to innovate is really inclusive leadership and I think MARC is all about that.

00:03:19,532
I love that, and I love the brand promotion, Karl. We’re a big P&G household. I live in Cincinnati, so that’s amazing. It’s a great, I think it’s a great example of that and we know that MARC equips
both men and people of all genders, so across gender lines, to advocate for equity and inclusion.

That’s the whole purpose.

So it’s really critical and it’s very relevant.

00:03:37,550
Thank you, and welcome.
Yeah, sure.

00:03:38,651
Gavin.

00:03:39,752
Yeah, so I’m purely here by accident. There’s no like grand plan at all at work here. So going back,  I suppose you don’t know me. I am a Marine. And when I was in the Marine
Corps, every day I would go off to work or, you know, do whatever. I would talk to my wife. And I’d just be like, “All right, babe, I’m off to go save the world.” Right? And it just became
this joke of, you know, I’m going to go save the world. In fact, it’s a joke I use today, you know, like, “How’s it going?” And I was like, “Ah, living the dream.” You know, like,
“No, I’m saving the world.” So then we had a daughter. We had a daughter. So my firstborn was born in 2013. And she changed my world. Like, she’s absolutely, If there’s anything that I can say is the reason I’m here is because of her, right? And so, you know, she’d be a little girl and, you know, I’d be off to work and she’d, you know, “No, Daddy, stay. No, daddy, don’t go.” I’m like, “It’s okay, baby. Daddy’s going off to save the world.” And then, you know, that just became our thing.

00:04:41,247
So as we started to look around and kind of observe the world around me, realizing that there was still quite a bit of inequity and that the system really wasn’t designed to be supportive of both genders. Right?

It was very much, you know, designed and tailored for men.

Right?

Created by and made for men.

And so as I started to observe these things, you know, I got to thinking and I was like, well, if I tell my daughter every day that Daddy’s going off to save the world140 and I do nothing about it, am I actually saving the world?

And so, you know, I decided to do something about it.

…if I tell my daughter every day that Daddy’s going off to save the world140 and I do nothing about it, am I actually saving the world?

And so, you know, I decided to do something about it.

00:05:17,884
And it just so happened right around that same time our CEO, Mike Wirth, came up and he in his inaugural address to the company, encouraged people to participate in a program like MARC. And I said, “Alright. Sounds cool. I’ll go do that.”

You know, started asking around and I was just sharing this story with him that, you know, there was no MARC available where I was at.

And so I was like, “Well, if nobody else is going to do it, I’ll do it.” And so I had a grassroots moment of, you know, developing MARC for, you know, the area that I was in. And that’s how I got started with MARC.

00:05:54,954
Great. Thanks, Gavin.

Well I love that senior leadership support, right?

When we know it’s present in both P&G and Chevron, and it’s so critical to have that support in terms of making progress around gender equity and specifically for MARC. So I’d love for you all to share a little bit more. Both of your organizations are very committed to gender equity and making progress across gender lines. So I’d love to hear more from each of you because you’ve done it
very differently.

So P&G, Catalyst has been working with P&G on MARC for many years, and we’ve done many of our MARC leaders immersive programs where we go in for a day and a half and really do a deep
push there. And with Chevron, we’ve done a lot of great grassroots programs with some of the MARC teams. We’ve also done some of that work for P&G. So the approach has been different and I think both very complementary and a lot of ways in terms of the progress that you’ve seen.

So I’d love for you both to share a couple of stories with us. I know we’ve had our share of many of them and share with the audience kind of what that’s looked like over time and how that’s evolved. Karl?

00:06:56,215
Sure.

You know, I think at this point, P&G is involved in just about every MARC program we’ve got. That’s right. But we started really with the workshops.

Yup.

And behind the idea that your research had shown, which has certainly played out for us, the number one thing that gets men involved in gender equality is seeing senior men involved. That’s right. And what is interesting to me as well is that we now do some of the things that it sounds like you were doing more of and they are complementary.

But, you know, I think for us it really has been part of our journey. You know, I think in a company where we want everyone to succeed, where all of our employees matter, it has created a space
for some, for people like me, who maybe didn’t always have vehicles, forums to talk, discuss, partner, ask questions.

Right.

And I think it’s not accidental that it is paired with, it was just last March we hit 50% of you know, we had balanced representation at our management levels.

It’s incredible.

And that’s, you know, I don’t, that is not accidental.

00:08:03,983
I think also we’re getting our best results while we also have our most diverse and, you know, representative organization ever.

Right.
So it really, you know, MARC’s been a key part of that for us.

00:08:17,230
Great. Thanks, Karl. Gavin?

00:08:18,598
Yeah.

So we have a variety of, we’ll say, Catalyst products that we use. So first and foremost was the MARC Dialogue Team.

Yeah.

That’s our bread and butter, our blocking and tackling, you know, whatever idiom you want there. And so those have been just wildly successful. That’s probably our longest use of MARC. And then on top of that, we’ve started to integrate things like the MARC Immersive Workshop, MARC for managers, the CBT, what’s it called, MARC Foundations.

Yup.

So you know, there’s a bunch of different varieties and different ways that we try to reach people where they’re at. And I think that’s the key to it all is you’ve got to be able to bring these conversations to where people are, not where you want them to be.

Right?

244
00:09:02,041
That’s right. That’s a really important point because as we’ve, you know, MARC for us is now in every region and every business and at all levels, but reaching people where they’re at. I remember early, early days when we would have a conversation, sometimes they were awkward fit.

We’d have a conversation in Europe that sounded like it was a conversation appropriate for North America. Or we’d be sharing examples in Latin America that weren’t from from the everyday lives of the people who were showing up.

And we had to make some mistakes and then realized that we needed to meet people where they’re at. Talk about examples of where they’re at. And I think also that is we’re, I won’t say learning it again, we know it, but we are learning how to do that again as MARC. We’re working with you on and Catalyst on MARC on the, On the floor. We call it, MARC on the floor.

I think for the front lines, right?
Right.

That is also its own audience, culture, patterns and we need to talk in ways that are relevant to them.

Yeah.
So it’s absolutely correct.

00:10:02,668
That’s great. One, it’s such an amplification of the work they were doing because we know that this is relevant for everyone. And I think, you know, I’d love to hear a little bit more because this work is is difficult, right? I mean, we’re in agreement on that. And the conversations that you have in MARC and around gender equity and talking about gender partnership, they can be challenging for people.

Right? That’s the whole point.

And we always talk about we’re not shaming and blaming. That’s in fact the opposite of what we’re trying to do. We’re engaging people and helping them come in a way that is comfortable and in a way that works for them. So I’d love to hear from you all about, you know, the ways in which this has manifested and what maybe some of those stories or aha moments have been, because I know
I’ve seen a lot of them and in actually delivering some of the MARC content and working with so many supporters around the world.

But I think that personal element is so critical to how you actually do make change. Yeah. Gavin, you want to start?

00:10:56,656
Yeah. So it’s funny that we were actually just talking about this before we came up here, but we planned the whole session about 5 minutes before.

5 minutes ago.

100%.

Just flowing with it.

But yeah, it’s [MARC] absolutely impacted my life. It’s impacted the relationships that I have with my wife, that I have with my daughter, that I have with my coworkers, both men and women.

But yeah, it’s [MARC] absolutely impacted my life. It’s impacted the relationships that I have with my wife, that I have with my daughter, that I have with my coworkers, both men and women.

Right?

00:11:17,343
I think that’s the part that kind of gets glossed over is when we say gender equity, immediately our minds are like, women. And that’s not the case, right?

Men and women have very different communication styles. We have very different perspectives. We have different like life experiences. And so what MARC really does is it tries to bring that together so that we’re talking the same language. We’re on the same page.

00:11:39,699
And so when I look at, you know, how I then engage with my male colleagues and how I communicate with them, it really helps me to articulate thoughts differently and honestly better. And then inversely, I can then communicate better and have those relationships and talk with my female colleagues. And it’s a skill set that I didn’t have before.

Yeah.
Right?

I used to be very blunt. You know, and I was like, “Well, it’s just the way I talk.” And, you know, you go through those justifications.

You can be purposefully blunt now.

Yeah, exactly.

Intentional.

But, you know, it teaches you things and it gives you that context. And we were just talking about, like, it’s taught me to be humble and it’s taught me
to kind of set my ego, set my pride aside and really just listen.

00:12:28,714
We were just talking out in the hallway about that. Still hears me.

Right.

Oh gosh, what’s that song?

From Disney?

No.

Because we were talking Disney for a little bit there.

It’s not Disney. Simon and Garfunkel.

Oh you talk Disney without me?

“Sound of Silence.”

Thank you.

Oh.

I was going to get there eventually.

“Sound of Silence.”

And in it it says, you know, people are hearing without listening, or other way around. Basically, we can hear words and we can absorb information from the outside, but it doesn’t get into your heart. It doesn’t really get to the core of who you are. And you’re missing so much value from what somebody else is trying to communicate to you. And it’s really about that, that interpersonal communication and really just deeply caring about somebody other than yourself.

I love that.

It’s that empathetic listening, but also just being, like walking in someone else’s shoes like they say. Right? Just really understanding that.

00:13:23,035
Karl, what’s been your experience in those aha moments?

00:13:26,539
I mean, some of them for me personally, were uncomfortable.

Yeah, sure.
You know, having and what I love is having some space to not be perfect like because if I’m, you know, if I’m going to be perfect,
then what do I have to learn? But I remember very early on even some things which I, surprise in retrospect, I didn’t know. But some of the patterns that get discussed about, say, you know, promote men for potential, promote women for performance, right? And I remember having a conversation about that, and I was reflecting and saw that I’d participated in that and thinking I was absolutely helping someone out. And they did get them advanced. But, you know, I was unaware of as a fish in water a bit about
just some of the patterns I was playing out.

And so that was, so MARC was a place where I could have those conversations. Maybe I could share some of that. Maybe I could talk to someone else about, you know, about those experiences and then figure out,
okay, well, what do I want to do different?And, I, that’s true for other employees as well, other participants, the other, people of all genders really, have come up after MARC workshops to share different insights that they’ve had.

You know, there’s one exercise in particular we’re very early on where you cross the line and it’s a chance for, when different aspects of life are read out. Cross the line if you’ve done this or if this was part of your background. And without fail, that always has some people coming up to talk about, “Boy, I had no idea. I never knew. I assumed this. I assumed that.”

So I really think it is just, it’s been a great place for people of all genders, particularly men, particularly when we don’t have these conversations to really learn these things. So I sorry, it’s a little bit of a long winded answer, but the experiences are what it is. That’s the point of it I think in some ways.

00:15:23,322
I think another thing too is it taught me to be comfortable with being uncomfortable.

Yeah.

Right.

So yeah, it’s- it tore down walls that I thought I had built up around me and just, you know,

I was kind of living in a little bubble. I don’t think anybody self-identifies as a misogynist or as somebody who is just like, outwardly biased towards people. I think we all generally think we’re doing all right.

And so what I love about MARC is it kind of like holds up a mirror to yourself. And you’re kind of like, “You’re not as cool as you think you are, bud.”

I don’t think anybody self-identifies as a misogynist or as somebody who is just like, outwardly biased towards people. I think we all generally think we’re doing all right.

And so what I love about MARC is it kind of like holds up a mirror to yourself. And you’re kind of like, “You’re not as cool as you think you are, bud.”

And so, you know, having that that aha moment and really just looking at myself and be like, look, you know, these behaviors are not okay.

I can continue doing these behaviors and life will go on, but I won’t grow to the potential that I could be as a human being. I think that’s really what it really boils down to is how do I be the best version and best human being that I could be?

Even outside of a professional setting, right?

And so when we talk about like the impact of MARC, like it is completely undersold. It is professionally impacting, it’s personally impacting and it impacts the people around you relationally. Like, there’s no part of your life that it won’t touch.

And so when we talk about like the impact of MARC, like it is completely undersold. It is professionally impacting, it’s personally impacting and it impacts the people around you relationally. Like, there’s no part of your life that it won’t touch.

00:16:43,769
But I love that testimonial, Gavin, and thank you. And Karl, do you want to add?

Can I build on that?

Yeah, please.

00:16:48,207
Yeah, I think because for me it really was the first time that it was asking a new question and just a general like what is the experience of the insider? Right? But it was, it was the first time I talked about what’s the experience for men. And for me it was
so cool about that.  You talk a little bit about this as this is the first time that I started reflecting on what are the costs to me? And what are the opportunities for me? You know, I think so much of my prior experience in how we relate to other employees could have been.

I’ll summarize it to say it was, how can I help this other person? And that’s necessary, right? I mean, there are other privileges and advantages, things like that. But MARC was also a place where I could start to say, “Well, what’s my stake in this?” And I think just as you’re talking, remember, my relationship with other men has improved because I’ve had a space where we can talk about, okay, what are the you can’t put one group in a box without putting another group in a box.

…my relationship with other men has improved because I’ve had a space where we can talk about, okay, what are the you can’t put one group in a box without putting another group in a box.

Right.

So what box am I in? And what how is my relationship with my friends in that confinement?
Sure.
And I think also too, but just in the way P&G has has sort of we’ve had it and then expanded it with MARC, is just looking at
how we take care of all of our employees that we all benefit.

00:18:13,125
So, for instance, you know, something, as we have advanced gender equality, we took a look at some of our policies and we’re like, “Boy, you know, why are we why do we have differences between genders on parental leave?”

And we did. When I joined and when we started with MARC. And then as we looked at that, we’re like, “You know what, this  actually doesn’t reflect on our values.”

And so for me, it parental leave for caregivers, it may have been an idea that was an insight that came from mostly women who are caregivers. But when we deployed it, you know, it was for all of them.

So I benefit, right? And to be honest, I’m benefiting right now. My parents are you know, if you’ve got older parents, 85, I had to take time off to help them. And in the past, maybe those things might have been career challenges or maybe someone’s like, you know, shouldn’t your wife be doing that or something? What are you doing?

Yeah.

There’s some stereotypes that, so all of it’s just to, the whole point of that is just to say it has been a place for me to reflect on the opportunities and costs that I face. Even if this wasn’t, if it was just about men. And I think that helps create a better experience for everyone.

00:19:22,294
I love that because it’s amplification. And how does this work impact everyone and how does it go beyond even the intent? And just to round out our conversation today, which has been great, and I knew it was going to be so fast, right? But some great nuggets here. I want to think about the advice for folks in the audience and address what we have found at Catalyst in our Engaging Men research  is that the number one reason that men often don’t engage in this topic is fear based, right?

So who here in the room, show a quick show of hands, has ever been afraid to say something or to speak up at work? Or even in your personal life? Every hand in the room, right?

It can be it can be really challenging. And you do feel like you might be in a box. Like, okay, I don’t know what to do. I don’t want to say the wrong thing. I don’t want to come across a certain way, right?  There’s a fear there. And that is the number one reason that men tend to not engage in this work, is what we found.

So I’m curious for those in the room, what advice you both would give, having lived through this and having done so much personal reflection and self-reflection and working with so many folks across genders, what’s the advice to maybe overcome  that and to really focus truly on gender equality and building that inclusive setting?

Either one of you can start. Jump in.

00:20:43,542
I think for me, it’s probably don’t wait to be perfect.

I love that.

Do not wait to have the answer.

I mean, and, you know, I was just thinking that I remember it may not have been the very first, but it was one of the very early meetings I had when I was talking to some folks about MARC and I got it so wrong. Like I remember at the end of this, one of the leaders raised their hand and asked if this was, and they didn’t use these words, but is this some type of Proud Boys men’s rights movement or something like that?

Right? Way wrong.

No, it’s not. Not hitting the mark at that point. And I learned. Right? You know, I mean, that was, I learned about how to have those conversations, how, you know, what questions are going to come up? If I’d waited to be perfect, I never would have even started.

Yeah.

And that’s just true with anything in general.

So I will also say that the imperfections can be the power in themselves.

00:21:40,899
One of the, we have something, which we call MARC Dialogues and inspired by MARC conversation, which P&G has, and every session starts off with the leaders at the front of the room. It’s a cold open talking about the mistakes they’ve made.

Yes, love that.

Because when we can share the mistakes we’ve made, it creates a space for other people not to be perfect. And I mean, that is ground zero for learning. So, I’d say, “Don’t wait to be perfect.” You know, in fact, the fact that you’re not perfect is exactly where you need to start.

I love that.

00:22:12,130
It’s great advice. Thanks, Karl. Gavin?

00:22:14,466
Yeah, so, I would say, “Be bold.” I think somewhere along the line an entire generation was told that you’re not enough. And I don’t think that that’s true. I know that’s not true. So if nobody’s told you, you are enough.

For those of you who have seen the Barbie movie. It’s an amazing movie. If you haven’t seen it, go watch it. I wasn’t paid to say that. But in it and I butcher quotes and things like that, so you’ll have to forgive me, but I’m going to paraphrase. But in it there’s a scene where one of the main characters talking about the dynamics of being a woman, how they have to be strong, yet submissive.

They have to be, you know, this and that. And there’s always these opposites that they’re having to accomplish all while maintaining niceness and prettiness and all this kind of stuff.  I think in a sense too, like men struggle with that. And I don’t think that’s something that’s talked about a whole lot.

You know, men are supposed to be stoic, yet sensitive. You know, they’re supposed to be strong and, you know, an authority. But they also have to be meek and humble. And so there’s a lot of these opposites that both genders struggle to reconcile.

You know, men are supposed to be stoic, yet sensitive. You know, they’re supposed to be strong and, you know, an authority. But they also have to be meek and humble. And so there’s a lot of these opposites that both genders struggle to reconcile.

And so I say that to say when you come across the point of what it is that I need to do to feel safe, to be vulnerable and be okay with that, that’s a really heavy question. That’s a really hard question. It’s a very individual question.

So to circle back to why I say, “Be bold,” if you fall into that category and you have those fears and you have those concerns know that, you know, your colleagues will support you. Put your faith in people a little bit. And I’m a cynic by nature. So that is a really hard statement for me to say. And it’s taken me quite a bit of a journey to get there.

But have a little bit of faith in people and be bold in that. And if you’re on the other end of the spectrum and you have people in your life that you’re like, “Look, you need to benefit from this.” And be bold with them and say, “Hey, look, you know, I love you, you know, but this is a gap for you. This is an area that you struggle with. And I think this program would help you.” Or something along those lines. Right? Like, we need to be bold with those that we care about.

And be bold with them and say, “Hey, look, you know, I love you, you know, but this is a gap for you. This is an area that you struggle with. And I think this program would help you.”

Yeah.

00:24:39,978
I love that. Thanks, Gavin. At Catalyst, we talk about it’s about progress, not perfection. So what you said, Karl.

Yeah.

And the other thing that I would just leave us with, and then we’re going to introduce a brief exercise that we’re going to do
to kind of bring some of this to life for everyone in the room, but, is be intentional, right?

Be intentional in your leadership and what you choose and how you choose to say it and how you choose to show up.

And I appreciate both of you because you are intentional leaders and have curiosity, which I think is so critical for this work.

Yeah.

And trying to make the progress that we all want to see in the workplace and beyond.

00:25:15,814
So, Gavin, Karl, thank you so much for joining us on the panel today and we really appreciate it.

I think they’ll be around a little bit, perhaps for questions and we’re going to actually do a quick exercise. So everyone, please join me in thanking them for their terrific insights.

The post Video: Beyond Allyship, Stories of Impact From MARC Alums appeared first on Catalyst.